Comments for Citizens of Red Owl Speak Out! Sam Hurst Talks Back at http://www.dakotaday.com , comment 1 to 21 out of 20 comments http://www.dakotaday.com Thu, 09 Sep 2010 01:29:06 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-154 Hi, I enjoyed your article. What I perceive in your description of the community you came to know are very predictable problems of a welfare state. It seems like everyone in this town has developed an internalized sense of how this corrupt system works, and has forgotten how to think, about anything really. Zombie banks, zombie bridges, zombie town, zombies. And I am sure the large ranchers in these areas don't mind to much. They are most likely favored, subsidized and protected by "regulation" (ie cronyism disguised as the benevolent hand of government) from the Department of Agriculture. Everyone in the community wants the status quo because everyone has forgotten how to take care of themselves, to have any degree of self-determination. A great way to enslave people is to take care of their every need for a time period long enough for them to forget there ever another way. Here is an idea. End the welfare state. Stop the wasteful spending, abolish all income taxes, abolish the Department of Agriculture, stop all subsidies, government loans, etc. to the corporate farms, end regulation, and send the D.C. emissaries back behind the city walls of Washington, D.C. and have them turn off their money printing machines and sit on their hands. After 20 years of that, the zombies would be gone, and there would be some vibrant people out in that neck of the woods. - David Leddy Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:37:44 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-153 As folks did with the Poppers, they're shooting the messenger once again. Wake up. Things change. That the Poppers and Mr. Hurst should recognize those changes and report on them does not make them enemies of the rural west. I've known the Poppers for over 30 years and can confidently report that they love the rural West. Frank idolizes it. You cannot imagine the distress he felt when the data revealed the depopulation going on. So now folks blindly react to Mr. Hurst like they did to the Poppers. Perhaps they don't realize that many of the folks who reacted negatively to the Poppers -- including some elected officials who made political hay out of attacking them -- have since apologized and admitted they were right. One town even honored them with a parade and a play. Don't shoot the messenger. Pay attention to their research and use it as an opportunity to reinvent yourselves instead of trying to preserve a nostalgic myth that is no longer sustainable. Just as our cities cannot continue to operate they did 50 years ago, the Great Plains cannot either. - Dan L Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:08:49 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-98 A statement like "you and so many others that are not from the rural areas" makes an assumption that urban people cannot relate. Many urban people are one generation from the farm or ranch and get ridiculed by those still living in the country. Don't you think this division suits those who would manipulate us. The "red neck" identity came from the southern coal miners (local folk) who were fighting the corporate coal industry thugs. Mine laborers wore red bandanas to distinguish themselves so they wouldn't get shot by allies. Ever heard of the Battle at Blair Mountain? Local folks working in the mines wanted to be treated like human beings not machines, but when they began to work with union organizers war broke out. History is still happening and together we can choose to take a more thoughtful, inclusive approach to conserving our South Dakota lifestyle. - glengal Sat, 04 Apr 2009 05:46:57 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-97 Sam's commentary is absolutely spot on and brutally honest. Tyler, first of all you can't expand on a definition of local economy. It is what it is. Red Owl and surround communities. Secondly, if ranchers and farmers in general were the great conservationists they claim to be there would be no need for the Endangered Species Act, CRP or similar subsidies. The Great Plains and prairies of this continent have been over-grazed and over-tilled for over 150 years. Third point. There are tons of people willing to pay top price for grass-fed beef. There is local producer here that can't produce enough of the stuf to satisfy local demand and I live in a community of 10,000. Sam's point is to be innovative, take some risks, explore some markets beyond IBP. Finally, wind energy done in a cooperative fashion IS in fact very efficient. My guess is that solar done similarly in SD would be even moreso. One of the things that the original article missed was a true challenge. A challenge for the people of South Dakota to be better than the rest of the nation. To truly innovate beyond where they are now. Because to be brutally honest, if you don't if 25 or 50 years it won't matter. - Jeff R. Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:09:30 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-96 You know who I am, rd. You've been conversing with me on blogs for years and have made every bit as much fun of me as I have of you. I'm from a rural area by the way. My family on my father's side are all from various farms around Oral, SD. In other words, my neck is just as red as yours, big fella. And I only start to think people might possibly be stupid when they behave that way, as you seem to have chosen to do with your post. But even then, I usually give them the benefit of the doubt for perhaps having a bad day. - bill fleming Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:18:16 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-95 B ill Fleming wrote, "As it sits so far, one has to wonder whether the name of the town shouldn't perhaps be "Red Neck" instead of "Red Owl." Fine way to get us to agree with you. By making fun of us. You, like so many others that are not from the rural areas, seem to think you are more intelligent than us. Perhaps others choose to not use their names because they don't want you calling them up and making fun of them. How do we know that Bill Fleming is your real name? You give us now reason to agree or even like you. In the first place, it was not the people of this area who called for the bridge to be fixed or replaced. As far as I can tell, the bridge is fine, but in the cover your butt attitude of the government these days, they have taken it upon themselves to do this project. Not us. If you can't get the story right, why would you expect any of us to agree with you or Mr Hurst? - rdennis Fri, 03 Apr 2009 03:59:40 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-93 Yup, it feels frustrating when people do not agree with my opinion. But to respect the fact that their point of view just might make some sense is how a workable solution is achieved. If I take the stance that I am right and they are wrong the discussion is stoved up. The best way I have found to deal with a difficult discussion is to keep returning. We may not ever agree on certain points but we will learn to trust that we are in it for the long run. By the way, I am not an agency employee but a wife and mother for 33 odd years. - glengal Thu, 02 Apr 2009 02:08:47 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-92 I have, in fact, attended a Sierra Club meeting and spoke at some length with the members who were concerned about the safety of prairie dogs in the Canata Basin. Likewise, Range has not replaced my own thinking. It presents a message that doesn't get heard otherwise, though. Have you ever spoken to someone from the department of the interior or from GFP? It is maddening, and after an experience or two like that, it is easy to see why ranchers quickly defer to what has always been done if doing otherwise means having to deal with bureaucrats. - Tyler Dennis Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:23:06 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-90 Tyler Dennis have you ever spoken to a local member of the Sierra Club?...attended a meeting?..or do you just want someone or some group who will not disagree with your opinions. The Range publication is interested in rallying a base of like minded people. Media influences people but none of us should let any publication replace our own thinking and experience. Have you spoken with District 29 State legislative representatives about wind energy and their record of voting to support Community Based Energy Development (C-BEDs)? Ranchers in eastern Meade are faced with Phase II TransCanada Keystone pipeline concerns. Who are our state representatives throwing in with, foreign tar sands developers or Meade County entrepreneurs? - glengal Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:01:00 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-88 Sidenote: I'm assuming Tyler Dennis is using his real name here, and if so, I salute him for it. You would think if all the irate Red Owl posters really wanted to be taken seriously, they would do the same. I can't really see any reason whatsoever to hide behind anonymity on this topic other than to enable oneself to be nastier than s/he would in face-to-face company. I have to say that in reading some of these screeds, I can't help but picture an angry lynch mob with masks over their faces, even as I believe in my heart that the people who wrote these things are almost certainly not really like that. It would be refreshing to see future comments take a more civil, thoughtful tone. Because surely good people of the Red Owl community would be much better served were the commenters to do so. As it sits so far, one has to wonder whether the name of the town shouldn't perhaps be "Red Neck" instead of "Red Owl." That said, I think it's generous of Sam to go ahead and publish your comments anyway. He obviously doesn't have to. - Bill Fleming Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:07:36 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-87 Great job, Tyler. Now you're having a real dialogue. Believe it or not, I think Sam is really on your side here. Rdennis, I'm not 100% positive, but I don't think Sam Hurst is either raising or marketing buffalo anymore. But he did, for quite a few years. That noted, I think he probably knows and appreciates exactly how hard South Dakota ranchers work. mjl, in what way do you think Sam has "slandered" the people of Red Owl? By suggesting that they may be intelligent enough to think of better ways to use $400,000 than to build a bridge? - Bill Fleming Sun, 29 Mar 2009 05:02:48 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-86 Mr. Hurst, You asked for a point by point response. I will do my best. 1) The local economy will be boosted significantly if you broaden your view of local economy. Those of us who live here realize to our chagrin that our lifestyle depends on our ability to get to town. Many of the ranch wives in the area have jobs in Sturgis, Rapid City, and other towns in the area. Part of the money that will go back to those areas will end up in the pockets of ranch families. 2)Groups like the Sierra Club are not interested in working with Ranchers for conservation. They fail to understand that ranchers are typically good conservationists, as they depend on the land health of the land for their livelihood. If groups like the Sierra Club are interested in working with ranchers, they will have to prove it. If the evidence presented in such publications as Range and others are accurate, these conservation groups will not be content until domestic animals have been removed from the land. Moreover the Endangered Species Act makes ranchers quite suspicious of conservationists because of the dangers that act presents to private property determined to be "critical habitat." 3)Ranchers would happily challenge a feedlot approach to beef production if the consumer is willing to pay the cost. There aren't many people who are willing or able to buy even ground beef at that cost. The better approach is to do away with corn subsidies, making it too expensive to feed to cattle, as corn seems to be the culprit in making red meat unhealthy. Approach the ranchers of Red Owl, though, and they would be happy to provide you with grass fat, hormone free beef from their own freezers. Unfortunately, it will be the consumer, not the producer, who will change the feedlot system. 4) As yet, wind energy has not proven to be financially feasible. The cost of installing the wind turbines and the infrastructure necessary to make them useful outweigh benefits. The state has shown no interest in helping to mitigate such costs, not has the federal government. Perhaps that will be one of the silver linings of the current administration. Happily, though, there are private investors with the money to begin the process of creating wind towers in the area. The ranchers have already begun benefiting from that project. The story with solar power is similar, but is even less feasible than wind. So, Mr. Hurst, it isn't as though none of us have considered each of the points you have made. We have. They just don't pencil. You deride the people of the community for their sentimentality, but there are times when values more important than money need to be preserved. That is what they are trying to tell you. - Tyler Dennis Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:33:31 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-85 I agree that the money going to red owl bridge could more then likely be put into better funds. Unfortanatly in your first article you didnt make that your main focus. No..no...no you had to Slander a small town and the people who are proud to call it home. You belittled their way of life and stated facts that were not true. Stick to what you know and leave rural communitys alone! - mjl Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:49:10 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-84 When you are talking about how this nations economy is in shambles have you ever stopped to think that this nations economy is heavily centered around agriculture. You said that we are making the people fat and that our products are crap. You also say that we have not worked in a steel mill and that we are arrogant. Well Sir I will have you know that I stayed up till 4 oclock last night watching cows calve and dragging calves out of snowbanks so that they would survive. I spent my whole day boot high in slop, snow, and mud. I didn't get in the house till 8 oclock tonight. No i have not worked in a sawmill but i do work darn hard at what i do on the ranch. You probably won't even take the time to read all of this but have you ever worked in a steel mill or do you just sit in your desk all day and type away on that computer. I won't have my family's heritage stomped on by somebody who has no idea what he is talking about. We are not the arrogant one here. You took an article and really made a world or enemies of some of the most caring people you will ever meet. invited to come help me tonight if you think that i do nothing out here. All of the things you taked about such as wind turbines have been looked at by many ranchers out here and if you ever find a wealthy rancher I would sure like to meet him and get some advice. Stick to your papers Mr. Hurst and your office chair. You would not have enough guts to make it out here. - Blane Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:02:58 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-83 It strikes me as quite ironic Mr. Hurst that you have such a poor view of the rural communities of this country, but yet "settled" to live in South Dakota. If you really do believe the "crap" you put in your article, you are invited to leave at any time and allow us unworthy people to live our lives without you in it. I do understand that the reason behind your artical is to draw attention to yourself and to promote your oun ego, and that our replies encourages your ignorant behavior, but come on. Your reply contradicts itself all over, first we are insignificant and are not worth fixing the bridge, then we are responsible for the worlds obesity. Well which is it. One more question, who are you to decide what happens or does not happen out here, in the middle of nowhere, stick to what you do know and from what I can tell by reading your article, what you know is how to quote research from others work without even understanding it yourself. - Wendy Smith Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:34 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-82 Again Mr Hurst, you tell tales that are not true and speak as if they are fact. Shame on you and your lies. If you do not want Ag subsidies, then get the government to abandon their cheap food policy. I am all for getting no government payment, but that is for ALL of us. You too are subsides in your buffalo venture and many other ways. How much buffalo meat did the government buy from you and other producers? Why not point out that you are a producer of buffalo and want all cattle gone so they do not compete against you and others who raise buffalo? You sir, are a liar. You You are probsably one who endorses the policies of FDR who started all this subside mess. - Rdennis Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:27:10 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-81 I am going to start this off by apologizing, not for what I said previously. I am apologizing for the rest of the community that I love so much that you have the nerve to write about things you know so little about. First and foremost, your response to my comment about the people in these communities being hardworking is not only offensive, but proves to these people that very few people know a hard day's work anymore. Yes, working in a steel mill or butcher shop is a difficult job. But so is ranching. Ten hour days are a vacation to most of these people. Why don't you discuss this with them at two in the morning during a blizzard when they are trying to keep their cattle alive, or birthing calves? Or how about in the summer when they spend hours upon hours haying or fixing fence? They do more physical work in one day than most people do in years. They are the backbone of our nation, whether or not you choose to believe it. Second of all, if you really think that coming back at us with "red meat" is going to offend us you are seriously mistaken. If people have a problem with beef, then don't eat it. You can't sit here and tell us you have never ordered a steak or gone to the local butcher shop and bought meat? Have you ever had a glass of milk? Which by the way studies have shown that low fat milk can help people to maintain a healthy weight. Not to mention the fact that ranchers raise a lot more than just cattle. How about chicken? Do you eat chicken? Or how about pork, turkey, potatoes, and bread? Do you just not eat? A majority of grocery items come from rural communities like Red Owl. Without these communities and all of your imports you would starve. Even if you don't eat meat, I am sure that you consume some product made by a rural community with each meal. It is sad that you feel that you have to respond to us with talk about Census, population, or research that was published in major magazines as proof that your point is valid. If you want proof that you are incorrect, I have no problem showing you, real physical proof. Not words that someone wrote that may have been as ill informed as you are. Spare us the bullcrap. We are not uneducated, and we are definitely not naive. You can write as many articles as you want about studies, or red meat, or how the rural communities are disappearing. The simple fact is that those people are still there, living breathing human beings that matter to a lot of people. You tell us to be more creative with the 400k? Would you like us to paint all of our houses, or how about invest in some landscaping so that the one time you drive through our area a year you can think it looks "pretty." That bridge is the center for commerce in that community, it provides us with transportation for school buses, ambulances, and fire trucks. I honestly believe if as many people in the country were as passionate about their community's safety that we would live in a much better world. Yes I agree that technology has taken longer to reach rural areas than it has in the cities. But I also challenge the fact that it is such a bad thing. What will you do someday if you no longer have a cell phone, or email, or electricity? I guarantee the people in that community, as well as many other small communities, will know how to survive. And won't it be sad if they are the ones saving people like you, who know little about their struggles yet continue to badger their way of life. Technology is making its way to these communities, and at some point I am sure there will be more windmills, and more economically friendly ways to produce crops. I agree one hundred percent that those things are important, however I also know that a majority of pollution comes from large cities, not from small rural communities. I firmly believe that an apology should be issued to the people of this community, as well as to all rural communities as you have offended not just 29 people, but everyone who has ever lived or known someone who grew up in the "frontier" as you so call it. It is sad that you waste time researching articles that someone else has written. Maybe you should spend some time in this community, and learn how these people live. Maybe you should go pull some calves in a blizzard, or spend all day on a tractor in the hot sun. Then maybe you will understand how hard these people work, and how disrespectful it is to read something like this article. - Sammy Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:08:24 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-80 You do not see the need for our bridge and or life style. In the world today everything is killing us. This give us cancer, this makes us fat. It there own choice to eat what they want. You say that we county folks do not know what real work it. Sir what are you doing right know other than sitting on you butt writing articles that are full of manure. Come to Red Owl and we will show you that we work just as hard as any other American. My mother is a teacher at Faith High School and they don't even have a school. They go to school in trailer houses, so how about instead of speading our hard eraned tax dollars on the already built schools in Rapid we use it to build Faith a new school. We do not have our head in the sands. This is our way of life. - Country Girl Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:07:04 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-79 Tayler, please. Don't stop before you start. Just cut to the chase (if you don't have time to read the whole thing) and respond to the last 6 paragraphs where you are being asked a set of specific reasonable questions. Your rebuttal so far is clearly intellectually dishonest. As far as making a positive contribution on behalf of your community, you would have been better off not to write anything. - Bill Fleming Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:04:08 +0100 http://www.dakotaday.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:citizens-of-red-owl-speak-out-sam-hurst-talks-back&catid=10:the-edge&Itemid=19#comment-78 I could not even finish reading your article. It is written too much like a "flame retaliation." Obviously the way to get people to consider your views is not to ride in on your high horse. I'll stop with that. - tayler Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:11:12 +0100